Sibling rivalry

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 09/07/2016 at 21:13 • Filed to: None

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Is it terrible that part of the reason I want a nice car and to be successful is to prove I’m better than my brothers? As the youngest and the black sheep growing up, I always felt like I was running to catch up, and now that I have the opportunity to make something of myself, this petty voice keeps pushing me to pass them...

jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:16

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Get what you actually want, not something you’re just buying to show you have more money than someone else.

I care what people think to an extent, but I don’t like spending too much money. That’s why I buy heavily depreciated German cars :)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jkm7680 09/07/2016 at 21:26

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There’s something to be said for employee lease deals though...

And I actually have really expensive tastes. So the flashy stuff catches my eye anyway XD

jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:28

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Eh, but you’re essentially paying for a long term car rental.

And same on that field, before I bought my Jetta I looked into a 2005 Quattroporte. Then I looked into getting a mental evaluation because that was a horrible idea.

DipodomysDeserti > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:34

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The concept of “surpassing” a family member is foreign to me. I was raised to treat nothing closer than family and friends and to bring each other up, not “pass” them. Of course I also don’t view money and stuff as a sign of success, so we are probably very different people. If a family member or friend tried to show off a car as a sign of success to everyone, we l’d probably all make fun of them for being such a jerk.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jkm7680 09/07/2016 at 21:46

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It’s not a rental. I wish people didn’t say that. No you don’t own the car with a lease, but if you finance a car you don’t own it either. Just because the state registers it in your name at the DMV when financing it doesn’t mean you own it. Try not paying your finance payment for a month or two and see who really owns the car. If you’re not paying cash there’s no difference.

jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:48

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It’s just giving the car back when you’re done with it, unless you buy it out. Which is still more money.

Idk, I personally never understood leasing. That’s just me though.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > DipodomysDeserti 09/07/2016 at 21:51

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I may be a jerk, but I’ve tried to help my brother and he won’t take the opportunities I’ve presented to him. So if he doesn’t listen it’s not my problem anymore.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jkm7680 09/07/2016 at 21:56

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But you’re only paying the depreciation in a lease, not the whole price of the vehicle. You trade or sell a car eventually when you buy it as well, you’re just hoping the extra money you paid to finish buying the car is covered by the current market value when you go to get rid of it. A car is a depreciating asset, and I’m not going to try to count on finding someone who will pay me what Ive paid because it rarely works out that way. It’s more financially secure to lease.

Clown Shoe Pilot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:58

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Actually, when you buy a car and finance it, you do own it. There’s a lien on it and it could be taken as collateral on the loan if you stop paying, but it’s still an asset on your balance sheet. The leased car might be registered to you, but the ownership remains w/ the leasing company. It’s a rental and you own nothing.

Want proof? Get married. Buy a car with financing and lease a car. Then get divorced. Compare and contrast how the two cars are treated in the property settlement.

jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 21:59

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Yup, all truth.

Most of the people I know who lease go through cars like every three years or so and have enough money where they can keep that up.

Good luck!

Long Live the Longdoor > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:08

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Being the eldest of my siblings and having acheived everything first, home ownership, new cars etc., I’ve discovered something: people likely aren’t going to have the reaction to buying said things that you think they might. You could buy X item if status or accomplish a goal, but your sibling might just brush it off like it’s no big deal (though you think it might be a big deal to them). What I’ve learned is to just “do me” the way I want and what everyone else thinks of me is what it is.

Die-Trying > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:09

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you dont have to PROVE that you are better......... IF, WHEN you are better, you dont have to SHOW everyone else......... they will see it for themselves.......

be the guy that talks up your “competition”........

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Clown Shoe Pilot 09/07/2016 at 22:09

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From a legal standpoint, you are correct. But from practical standpoint you’re still paying a monthly note to drive a car. Consider the fact that when you finance a car you don’t get the title, the bank does. And you can’t even get that title to sell the car until you pay the remainder of the note.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jkm7680 09/07/2016 at 22:11

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Well leasing is cheaper so even people with average money can get a nice car.

Thanks buddy!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Long Live the Longdoor 09/07/2016 at 22:12

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I guess mine comes from being the youngest. I’m still chasing the opportunity to prove something :\

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Die-Trying 09/07/2016 at 22:15

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I’m always really upbeat about Mercedes and Audi actually. The cars sell themselves, I’m just selling myself and the dealership. And I can’t do that with negativity.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:28

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I think that you won’t be happy if you buy a car to impress others first and foremost. This will apply to many other aspects of life—it’s no fun living to impress others, unless your living depends on YouTube hits (I would question even that as a legit source of happiness).

Personal pride is important, but as a car guy I need to buy a car that pleases me first. The reaction of everyone else is a secondary concern.

Related: Don’t overestimate what people think of your car. Most people really don’t care much because most people are not car enthusiasts.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:30

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Agree with Longdoor—doing you is the best way to prove something. Being happy and content with your life does way more to impress others than a car, or a house, or six wives.

Die-Trying > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:32

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i didnt mean the other dealerships. i meant your brothers.........

Clown Shoe Pilot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:34

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Just because you pay in installments doesn’t mean you’re renting. Also, once you’ve paid the full purchase price of the car (plus any interest) you get the title from the bank w/ the lien released. The title will arrive with YOUR name on it, because you’ve ALWAYS owned the car. The bank held the title because of the lien, but you’re the owner. Look at the title for a leased car and the owner will be listed as “Bob’s House of Leased Entry Level Luxury Sedans for $30K Millionaires” or something.

Also, let’s say you go out and buy a new car with a selling price of 50K, but you’ve only got 30K in your pocket so you finance the other 20K. To make it interesting let’s say it was a 1 series M Coupe which seems to be nearly depreciation proof, especially because you rarely drive it and keep it in fantastic condition. Last, let’s say that you pay all but the last payment and the car gets repo’d by the bank with you only owing $300 on it.

If the bank repos the car and sells it for 49K, they get their $300, plus whatever repo fees, legal fees, and selling costs they incur. We’ll assign a value to the “extras” of $1700 to make the math easy - the bank’s costs are 2K. After the sale, the bank is obligated to cut you a check for 47K, because it was YOUR car, not their car.

If you stop paying your lease on the same 1 series M Coupe, the leasing company comes and picks up the car, sells it for way more than your remaining obligation on the lease, and you get nothing because you were renting it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Die-Trying 09/07/2016 at 22:36

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I know. I think it applies equally to both though.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Clown Shoe Pilot 09/07/2016 at 22:40

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You notice how you had to make all those exceptions to make the situation work? “It’s a 1M coupe so it doesn’t depreciate it” and “you never drive it, so it keeps its value”. In a normal situation these things don’t apply. In a standard situation by the time your car gets to the point of paying it off, you’re left with a value that’s less than half. But you paid for the whole thing. It just doesn’t make sense for a daily driver car. Yes there are always exceptions and special circumstances, but they don’t apply here.

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:44

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Do it for you.

Clown Shoe Pilot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 22:51

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OK, lets say I missed the last payment on my Hyundai Veloster. The bank repos the car, they get their $300 + selling fees. Let’s say that’s $2k again, just to stay consistent. If they sell my 2012 Veloster for $2500, they owe me $500, because it was my car, not their car.

Also, if I can reasonably argue that they sold it at a bullshit price, I may have an actionable claim against the bank. Edmunds says my car is probably worth around 9K. If the bank repo’d it and sold it for 2500 and cut me a check for $500 I could go after them for the other 6500ish because they didn’t make a commercially reasonable sale. Again, it’s my car, not theirs.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is “just because you pay for something in installments doesn’t mean you’re renting it.”

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 23:09

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It’s not terrible, but it is really stupid.

If you buy a car for appearances, you will be the living embodiment of how people like me interpret people who lease new 3-series.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Clown Shoe Pilot 09/07/2016 at 23:24

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I get that. But you’re missing the point when I said the difference between legal and practical. In the real world scenario, you’re paying 22k to get 9k back. As where in leasing you get nothing back but you would only pay the first third of that amount to begin with.

RallyWrench > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/07/2016 at 23:28

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Nice car doesn’t mean new car. You could just as easily prove you’re smarter than them by driving a well kept, paid for old car and saving the rest for things that actually matter in life.

Spasoje > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 00:40

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Allow me to pop in here, if I may... Something that hasn’t been detailed is that one’s obligations during and at the end of the contract demonstrate that leasing is long-term renting, while financing is not:

With a lease – just like with a rental – you can only do what the leasing company allows: no more than a certain mileage, no more than a certain level of damage, no more than a certain amount of time using it. The contractual obligations concern every minute you have the car.

However, your privileges with a financed car are identical to one paid for in cash. You can do all the same things to a financed $70k Audi that you can to a cash-paid $300 Craigslist beater from right when you take delivery, and nobody can ever do anything about it. The contractual obligations only concern paying off x amount of money, and absolutely nothing else.

* * *

Also, a financed car has your name on the registration – a leased car does not. The right of reposession is lenders using their most effective tool to make sure everyone pays. It does not imply nor consist of any form of ownership, legally or practically. It’s the trade-off for not coughing up five or six figures in one go.

Tapas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 02:36

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Its tough to shake that feeling. And I’m no shrink so I can’t help you with that. But if you want to do it, do it in a Jalop way.

Pick something because you like and can afford it, first and foremost. But how about finding a great deal on an almost new or slightly older luxury/sports car that’s way better than their cars?

I mean I would hope you would do this for yourself anyway.

But as a bonus, when you tell people about your new purchase, they will realize that you got what you got because of your skills and car knowledge - which is better than theirs. So you’re smarter than them at this...Does that work?

victor > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 02:49

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Btw, my wife wants one of those, but somehow get the 340 engine in there. Either that or a golf r wagon (if it ever came stateside.)

DipodomysDeserti > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 07:04

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Legally you do own it. The terms of the loan just use the car as collateral in most cases. That's like saying you don't own parts of your business if you take out a loan and use equipment as collateral. The fact your allowing property to be used as collateral means you have ownership of it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > RallyWrench 09/08/2016 at 07:22

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But to me, having a nice newer car matters...

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Spasoje 09/08/2016 at 07:29

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The “you have to actually take care of it” argument comes up a lot when I deal with new leasers. But that always begs the question: were you planning to thrash your car after you buy it? I know not many people intentionally damage their cars, but I wouldn’t want the condition of my car worsened regardless of how I’m paying for it.

In that vein there IS a penalty for not maintaining a car that you own or finance, and that is the additional depreciation it causes when you go to sell it. Once again, legal vs practical.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Tapas 09/08/2016 at 07:31

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Working at a luxury dealership, I have access to employee leasing deals on some pretty awesome cars. I would want to take advantage of that to keep a low payment and be able to switch it up in a couple years.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > victor 09/08/2016 at 07:33

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They’re making a 4mo Sportswagen but it’s going to be 1.8T only. That being said, the engine is very tunable and It’s going to be hooked up to the DSG in that application...

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > DipodomysDeserti 09/08/2016 at 07:33

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Once again, legal vs practical. You’re still paying every month to drive the car.

DipodomysDeserti > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 07:52

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And paying monthly for somethin has absolutely nothing to do with whether you own it or not.

victor > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 09:44

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She thinks the engine doesn't feel fast enough

Manny05x > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 09:52

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Crush them all.

Tapas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 12:07

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Well then...you have my envy!

Whatever you do, do it because you want it, like it and can afford it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manny05x 09/08/2016 at 14:03

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See, you get it!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Tapas 09/08/2016 at 14:06

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Thank you sir! And believe me I’m around enough of these things every day to find something I like XD

Tapas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 14:30

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Sweet! Share your car when you get it.

I’ll be sure to give you and everyone at Oppo a shout out when I get to move back to the US :)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Tapas 09/08/2016 at 14:35

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Looking forward to it!

Spasoje > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 16:33

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I would still disagree, though. A lease forces you to maintain it properly no matter what, whereas when financing, there is zero obligation to do so because you can always never sell the car.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Spasoje 09/08/2016 at 16:52

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So youd rather not have to risk having to take care of a car and be stuck with a pile of shit you created instead? No thanks...

Spasoje > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/08/2016 at 17:05

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Dude, what are you talking about?? Nobody said one option is better than the other.